Forum:Skills and skill box/templates
As you may know, a template has been written that allows us to automatically create skill boxes for the skill pages. The template(and its documentation is here: Template:Skill box). IT allows us to do pages like this: Bite. On the other hand some skills use simple and custom hand written wikitables to create these boxes, like here:Venom Spit. Each of these approaches both have their advantages and inconveniences and we should decide once and for all what we want to do. Please leave you comments, opinions, votes here, and we'll try to find a solution. I will try to moderate organize the discussion. Happypal 14:31, 14 May 2009 (UTC) Template Pros *Standardized *Can be Mass modified in the future Cons *Not flexible *Cannot handle ALL of the skills Wikitable Pros *Can create high quality tailored boxes Cons *Not standardizeable *Requires per skill modification in the future General Open discussion I think it is a very bad idea to use the template. I have nothing against it, I wrote it. However, I think it not flexible or open, and regardless of all its qualities, openness on a wiki is imperative. The template is fancy, but it only works for standard skills, and we do not get optimal results for all the skills. If you look at the page Morale, I ask you: Is the template really doing it's job? Do we need 6 lines saying the same thing. What about pages like Raise Dead Ward. Should we write a template that can take columns like "Chance to Convert" or "Spirit Bonus Damage". And this is just a short list of examples. Personally, I find the layout for normal wikitable pages to be prettier than the ones using the template, but that's just me. I would like to say that having used both, I find that writing custom tables to be actually EASIER than using the template. That's right. Just look at the code for Venom Spit or Raise Dead Ward? Even though they were hand tailored, they are really easy to write and maintain. Their simplicity almost guarantees we won't touch them in the future, although page layout might change. Happypal 14:31, 14 May 2009 (UTC) :I think an issue is re-usability and format changes. With a template you change it one place and it changes everywhere. To re-use it you have to copy the code elsewhere. And in your examples, I think Raise Dead Ward would work well in a template. I just think we might need to make the template more flexible or make templates suited to certain types of skills, like passive skills. --JonTheMon 14:35, 14 May 2009 (UTC) :Actually, on a more core level, what do we do about skills that are linked together, ala Venom Spit? Should they be separated or put onto the same page? 'Cause that will make a big difference --JonTheMon 14:37, 14 May 2009 (UTC) ::I think that if we keep the template, it would have to be lighter anyways. It is supposed to be a skill box, and currenly, it also handles the description, the images, and well, the entire article layout! ::You say the advantage of templates is re-usability (I agree), but are these tables ever going to change? They are nothing more than a basic wikitable. ::My gripe is that I don't believe there is a NEED for the template. While we CAN use it, on the long run, it'll be a hindrance, and not really helpfull. Happypal 14:49, 14 May 2009 (UTC) :Definetly Templates. Use the skillbox template and single articles for every skill, using that template. There's absolutely no downside and we can make them work for every skill. Aroddo 15:36, 14 May 2009 (UTC) ::Alright, I'll warm up to the template. However, if we are to use it correctly, I would like to put its further use in articles on hold temporarily, whilst I make some major changes to it. Once done, I hope it will be able to handle ANYTHING! ::Aroddo, I agree that the template should be written within the articles. There is no need for an extra template. Happypal 16:11, 14 May 2009 (UTC) :::Can I get you guys to agree that Bite looks good? Happypal 16:15, 14 May 2009 (UTC) ::::I think Bite looks good as long as the image isn't in a thumbbox. --JonTheMon 16:55, 14 May 2009 (UTC) :::::I agree that the skill icons look better without the thumb frame. Additionally, the edges of the all the icons look quite jaggy. A quick fix is to just reduce the image's display size, which I did on the Bite article. It's still plenty big enough to recognize and the edges look much smoother. If there are no objections, I'll do this on the rest of the skill pages. JoePlay (talk) 19:42, 14 May 2009 (UTC) ::::Just out of curiosity, why didn't you like it before with the skill image, description, and demigod image in a box above the skill info? --JonTheMon 19:18, 14 May 2009 (UTC) :::::I liked it. :) Aroddo 21:33, 14 May 2009 (UTC) This discussion in ultimately up to you guys (the Demigod Wiki community) to decide, but since I was asked to give my thoughts, I'll make a quick reply. Since it seems that most (if not all) of the skill pages have already been completed with all the info, this discussion may be a bit late. However I'm a firm believer in a consistent appearance, so if you guys came come up with a template that can be used on all (or almost all) of the skill pages and that includes the necessary info, I'd personally use that method if it was up to me. In addition to the consistent appearance, I also like that if any tweaks need to be made to the appearance/layout of the skill info, you'd only have to make one edit (to the template) instead of 100, or however many skills are in the game. Regardless of what you guys agree on, I want to commend all of you for the great, open communication and discussion you're having. =) JoePlay (talk) 19:42, 14 May 2009 (UTC) :Ok, here's a somewhat odd thought, but it might be able to incorporate the various disparate skills while still using a single template: have the Skill Box template act as a filter for sub-templates optimized for the different kinds of skills. So, all the current code would get moved to Skill Box Active, and we'd probably make a few more like Skill Box Passive Repeat (Morale). Too much work? --JonTheMon 16:03, 15 May 2009 (UTC) ::Um ... you lost me there. :) Aroddo 14:15, 17 May 2009 (UTC) :::Essentially, you could have 1 template call 2 or more others, depending on what kind of skill it was. --JonTheMon 18:33, 18 May 2009 (UTC) A new proposal Back when I was still editing at w:c:supcom, we were having problems because our unit boxes were just plain too massive. The solution we found was to use tabbed unit boxes. Please take a look at w:c:supcom:T1 air scout. I was wondering if we couldn't do something like that: A box, were every tab represents a skill level. This is independent from the above discussion, but I was wondering if it might be something we'd want to see here. I threw this together: w:c:supcom:User:Happypal/Demigod. It looks like crap because I wrote it in 5 minutes, but it might give us a better idea. What do you guys think? Happypal 21:33, 14 May 2009 (UTC) :I can see it being useful for things like Rook Towers, but for skills like Bite it's overkill. And personally, i'd rather have all the information visible at once. --JonTheMon 01:26, 15 May 2009 (UTC) :Looks nice. That can be used additionally, but with dedicated skill pages (using the skill box template) i agree with JonTheMon. I like to see everything at once. But if you want to put skill info anywhere else - let's say a guide - then it's very useful. Aroddo 16:34, 15 May 2009 (UTC) Votes For Template *Aroddo 15:34, 14 May 2009 (UTC) *--Shadowcrest 22:37, 14 May 2009 (UTC) For wikitable *User:Happypal